Bob Moriarty has been consistent in stating that the US stock market is in the midst of a major topping process for the last several months. While the major indices certainly haven’t crashed, the damage beneath the surface of the mega-cap DJIA and S&P 500 has been deep and extensive. The average US stock is down more than 20% from its November 2021 peak, and the popular ‘meme stocks’ like AMC and GME are down well over 50%.
In Energy & Gold’s January 2022 conversation with 321gold founder Bob Moriarty we discuss why Bob believes we are about to have a major stock market crash. We also get a little history lesson on the Cuban Missile Crisis and The Suez Crisis. Bob also explains why he believes we are entering a ‘Golden Age of Mining’.
Goldfinger:
So let’s start with bigger picture stuff. You have been pretty vocal that you think the stock market has peaked or is in the process of peaking. Clearly this is playing out a little longer than maybe you anticipated, but sometimes the topping process takes months. So where do you think we’re at now?
Bob Moriarty:
I think we’re midway. I think we’re past the peak, but lots and lots of people recognize the market is overblown. There was a good piece and I don’t know who came out with it that showed that 40% of the stocks on the NASDAQ were below their 100 day moving average. And, that’s a really big number. I think the stock market is crashing right now and nobody realizes it.
Goldfinger:
So when you say you think the stock market is crashing but nobody realizes what you’re actually saying is that a lot of NASDAQ listed high flyers with no earnings have dropped 50% or more in the last year. So underneath the surface there’s a lot of damage.
Bob Moriarty:
Absolutely correct. It’s a stock market built on a house of quicksand. And there have been a lot of high flyers. There have been a lot of companies beneath the surface that are truly crashing and then something will happen and it will trigger the avalanche. So, I’m going to tell you by and large, other than… In fact, I thought it would start in October. I think I’m 80% or 85% correct so far.
Goldfinger:
There’s so much we can talk about today, but my next question would be, well, the media and even you and I use the Dow or the S&P to discuss the stock market. We often see the Dow’s down a thousand points, the Dow’s down 2%, the S&P’s down 1%. But actually, if you look at the real US stock market, a broader slice of the US stock market, many stocks are down 20% or more, but the S&P and the mega-caps of the Dow are basically sitting at all time highs. So, what’s it going to take for the whole thing to roll over?
Bob Moriarty:
Well, do you remember the Nifty 50? Yeah. Okay. This is a Nifty 50 example, and it is precisely what you just defined where back in 1969 and 1970, the Avon and AT&Ts, and AT&T couldn’t go down and everybody was playing it. Everything was all right as long as the Nifty 50 were fine. Then they crashed, I believe we are going to have a massive crash. My opinion is it’ll be the biggest crash in history. Anybody below your age has never been through a bear market.
Goldfinger:
Even people that were technically alive in 2008, they were probably kids or in college. So there’s a lot of people in their 20s and 30s that have never seen a bear market, really. Let’s turn our attention to Russia. And I know how you feel. We talk so many times, I know that you have respect for Putin, and you generally sympathize with the Russian situation against the west. You wrote an article January 10th, basically telling Biden that you don’t want to fuck with Putin. Now let’s get the emotion and the tough talk out of it. And actually look at this from a sensible standpoint. Russia has moved a lot of troops, tanks and warplanes close to Ukraine.
Bob Moriarty:
Hang on, hang on a minute. Are you saying that Russia instigated this?
Goldfinger:
I’m stating the facts.
Bob Moriarty:
Trying to spin it. If you’re going to talk about the sequence, you’ve got to identify and correct the order. Ukraine moved tanks and people right to the border of Donbas and threatened Donbas. Ukraine refuses to implement the Minsk Agreement. Okay? So yes, Russia has moved tanks and people near the border, but the fact… Let me read something to you. Have you been to the burning platform today?
Goldfinger:
No, I don’t usually go there.
Bob Moriarty:
You should go there because there’s an article by somebody else that’s really interesting. I’m going to read a couple paragraphs. “We spoke on several occasions between meetings and he, that is Putin, arranged to sit next to me at a dinner accompanied by his interpreter. At the dinner, he asked me, ‘What’s the single most important obstacle between your Western business man and my fellow Russians and starting up business connections?’
“Off the top of my head, I responded: “The absence of legally defined property rights — without those there is no basis for resolving disputes.”
‘Ah, yes.’ He said. ‘In your system, a dispute between businesses is resolved by attorneys paid by the hour, representing each side, sometimes taking the dispute to the courts, which normally takes months an accumulation of hourly attorney fees.
In Russia…’ He continued. ‘Disputes are usually resolved by common sense. If a dispute is about money or property, then the two sides would typically send representatives to a dinner. Everyone attending, arriving would be armed, facing the possibility of a bloody often fatal outcome. Both sides always find a mutually agreeable solution. Fear provides the catalyst for common sense.”
It behooves you to read that because everything that I see in Putin, that is precisely how he thinks. Now do you understand what the real simple issue is between Putin and NATO?
Goldfinger:
I understand what you’re saying and I understand the quote and there is a lot of sense in that. But okay, let’s get to the core of the matter here. We could go on this subject for days talking about the history of Ukraine and Russia, the Soviet Union, how they drew the boundaries and all that crap. And it’s just too long for this conversation. Let’s just cut to the heart of the matter. The heart of the matter is that Ukraine is a sovereign country. Is that true or not?
Bob Moriarty:
It’s absolutely false.
Goldfinger:
So if that’s your tenet, then we can’t even discuss this rationally.
Bob Moriarty:
Stop for just a minute. In 2014, the United States spent $5 billion overthrowing the democratically elected government. Now I’m not pro or anti Russian. But in 2014 there was a coup d’etat paid for by Victoria Nuland and the United States. There was a coup d’etat….
Goldfinger:
Come on Bob. You know Yanukovych was a Russian puppet stooge and the election was fixed.
Bob Moriarty:
He was elected in a democratic election.
Goldfinger:
Bob, it was a rigged election. And this is agreed upon by multiple countries. It was. And all you needed to do was look at the people and their response to Yanukovych’s policies, and then eventually his fleeing to Moscow back to the protection of his puppet master, Putin. Come on, Bob.
Bob Moriarty:
Well, he did flee to Moscow, but tell me exactly what the United States spent $5 billion dollars for.
Goldfinger:
I don’t know.
Bob Moriarty:
I could send you a video, Victoria Nuland bragging about it. $5 billion dollars.
Goldfinger:
So if we’re going to talk about that, the CIA, the KGB do all kinds of stuff all around the world. They’re not good guys on either side, but there’s nowhere to get to with that conversation. The only place we can get to in talking about this, because the market’s obviously concerned about these discussions between Russia and the US right now…
Bob Moriarty:
There are no talks.
Goldfinger:
Well, basically Russia has outlined what it wants and the US and NATO are basically saying, “We’re not going to give it to you.”
Bob Moriarty:
That’s correct.
Goldfinger:
Russia is warning of potentially dire consequences. Is a full-scale armored invasion, war with Ukraine and Russia really possible in 2022? The fatality count would be enormous. The civilian casualties would be enormous. The impact upon the world would be unimaginable. Obviously, nuclear war hopefully is not in the realm of possibility, but it certainly brings it closer. I don’t see what’s in this for Russia to do this. I think it would create a situation where Russia is ostracized by the rest of the world. And the fact is that Ukrainian people speak their own language. They have their own culture and national pride. I know that Russia says they’re Russian.
Bob Moriarty:
There’s two parts. In the Donbas region there was a democratic election and 96% of the people voted to join Russia. And Russia said, “We don’t want fucking Ukraine.” It’s Russia that’s saying they don’t want Donbas to be part of Russia and the Donbas people are saying, “We do want to be part of Russia.” Ukraine is really… Ukraine is the ultimate mutt. Okay. There is no Ukraine. But, let’s go back to the simple issue. What did John F. Kennedy want the USSR to do in 1962?
Goldfinger:
I wasn’t alive then, so I don’t know.
Bob Moriarty:
How much do you know about the Cuban missile crisis?
Goldfinger:
I Know we came within a few seconds of nuclear war.
Bob Moriarty:
That’s true. The USSR had installed missiles in Cuba that obviously threatened the United States and Kennedy said, “We’re absolutely not going to allow that.” And he put a blockade around Cuba and it absolutely came very close to a nuclear war. We are closer to a nuclear war now than we were then. Now what very few Americans are aware of, Kennedy wanted the Russians taken out of Cuba. What did the USSR want?
Goldfinger:
The Soviets wanted the US to get out of Turkey?
Bob Moriarty:
Thank you. Okay. So Americans believe the United States won that conflict. When in fact it was Russia that won that conflict. Now, was it reasonable for Kennedy to insist the missiles not be allowed to be in Cuba? Was that a reasonable demand?
Goldfinger:
Of course.
Bob Moriarty:
Okay. So why would it be any different for Russia to insist that there not be NATO missiles in the Ukraine?
Goldfinger:
Yeah. It’s a very tricky situation. And I agree with you. It is a reasonable request.
Bob Moriarty:
Not a request. See, that’s what everybody’s confused by. Now, I believe, and it’s just my opinion. I don’t think there’ll be any invasion of Ukraine. But I can tell you Putin is going to do something and we’re not going to like it. How much do you know about The Suez Crisis in 1956?
Goldfinger:
Not much.
Bob Moriarty:
Okay. I’m going to give you the basics of it. Israel was always trying to expand their land position, and Egypt was the most powerful country in the Middle East other than Israel. And Israel literally invaded that Suez Canal with the intention of taking control of the Suez Canal. France and England were on the side of Israel. The United States stepped in and said, “This is bullshit. We’re not going to let you do this. You, you back off and get the fuck out of there.” That was a good thing to do. Okay? Sometimes you have to take action just because it’s the right thing to do.
Russia doesn’t want Ukraine. Ukraine is a failed state and quite bluntly, if you knew what really went on, it was a coup d’etat in exactly the same way that the English MI6 and the CIA have going on in Kazakhstan right now. And the Russians and the Chinese said, “It’s bullshit. We’re not going to allow you to do this.” So from the American perspective and the English perspective they’re saying, “Oh, those nasty Russians. They’re killing all those peaceful protesters.” Well, there’s videos of guys driving up in vehicles, opening the trunks and handing out guns. That was a CIA operation and Russian Kazakhstan’s going to kill a bunch of those motherfuckers. Right?
Goldfinger:
So everything that happens around the world is because of the CIA, Bob?
Bob Moriarty:
Well, actually it is. If you read any of the books, you go back to 1947. Harry Truman said that if he had realized the CIA was going to turn into the monster it turned into, he would’ve shut it down right at the beginning. I hate to say it because I fought in Vietnam for two years and it’s taken me 50 years to realize, it wasn’t the American military in Vietnam that was doing everything. It was the frigging CIA. The whole Gulf of Tonkin thing was a CIA operation. So the CIA is utterly out of control and always has been. They sponsored something like 72 coup d’etats and revolutions.
Goldfinger:
You know, the Kazak situation has a 0.0% chance of turning into a revolution with a change of leadership. I mean Russia sent 5,000 special forces in there straight away. And there’s no shot of that taking hold. Kazakhstan is a massive country that has the largest land border with Russia. They’re not going to take any chances there and the people are not well organized and they’re not well equipped enough to possibly pull off something like that. So if that’s a CIA operation, it’s a joke and it never had a chance.
Bob Moriarty:
Well, China’s in there. China has the biggest border with them too. China on the south and Russia on the north. So, Kazakhstan… I mean, what I’m really trying to say is virtually all of the aggressive measures that are taking place now are not on behalf of Russia. They’re on behalf of NATO and the United States. And I’m going to tell you these fucking idiots in Washington… Do you understand who we were fighting in Afghanistan?
Goldfinger:
Initially it was supposed to be the Taliban, but as it turned out I have no idea who the US was fighting since we handed it right back to the Taliban along with billions of dollars worth of military equipment.
Bob Moriarty:
Well, I mean, we were there for 20 years, but I mean, what was the occupation of the average Taliban?
Goldfinger:
I have no idea. It was the most useless military excursion in US history.
Bob Moriarty:
Yeah. We were fighting goat herders. We got our asses kicked by guys who didn’t have any big weapons at all, but they had the moral high ground. Same thing that’s true in Vietnam. I mean, the Vietnamese people are very pacifist. You don’t see guns on cops in Vietnam today. The Afghanis, on the other hand, five year old kids know how to shoot.
Goldfinger:
Well, there was no victory in Afghanistan. There was no way to achieve victory. It was useless…
Bob Moriarty:
There’s an easy way to win any war.
Goldfinger:
Just stop fighting.
Bob Moriarty:
No. Don’t start fighting in the first place.
Goldfinger:
Don’t start fighting in the first place. Yes, that’s right. So moving on, it seems to me that this is a chess game between Russia and the US.
Bob Moriarty:
No. It’s not a chess game. It’s a chess game on the part of Russia. And it’s a Chinese checkers game on the part of the United States. Now I’m just going to tell you, every one of those fucking buffoons in Washington… Link into the Secretary of Defense. We are governed by utter clowns.
The NeoCons run by Kagan and Nuland want a war with Russia. They’re going to get it.
Goldfinger:
Let’s return to junior mining. I want to talk about some big news headlines of this week. And you tell me which one you want to discuss more. Three news releases really stand out to me this week. One was Filo Mining, which is a much bigger company focused in Argentina and the San Juan province. And they put out just an absolutely breathtaking hole from their Filo del Sol project.
64 meters of 1,214 grams per tonne silver. Not silver equivalent, 1,200 gram per tonne silver over 64 meters! Now obviously that’s a $1.5 billion market cap, but that’s one of the best drill holes I’ve ever seen in my life. The second one was Endurance Gold at their Reliance Gold Project in southern BC, Canada. They put out a drill hole that was really incredible, a near surface intersection of 24.8 meters of 15.7 grams per tonne gold.
So about 390 gram-meters there. That’s a hell of an intercept. And then in the battery metals area, there was Talon Metals that announced that they signed an agreement with Tesla to sell Tesla 75,000 tons of nickel concentrate, but starting in 2026. So it’s a hell of an announcement because it involves Tesla and a US battery metals junior miner. But it won’t actually be in effect for four years. So which one of those stands out to you?
EDG.V (Daily – One Year)
Bob Moriarty:
I think the Tesla announcement. Because what business is Elon Musk in right now? He wasn’t in this business a year ago, but he is in the business now. It’s very important to understand.
Goldfinger:
What business is Elon Musk in?
Bob Moriarty:
Yeah.
Goldfinger:
He’s in the clean energy business.
Bob Moriarty:
No, he’s not. He’s actually a bank.
Goldfinger:
Hmm. And why is that?
Bob Moriarty:
Because he just sold $13 billion worth of stock. Okay? And the really strange thing is they said that it was so he could pay his taxes, when in fact what it was really about was he understood how overvalued Tesla was and he wanted to cash out across the board. The really big players are unloading chairs to beat the band. But when you have $13 billion in cash and you don’t particularly need it, you become a bank.
I think it’s a brilliant move on his part. And I think you’re going to see more of that with all of the hyperinflation in bonds and stock market and commodities. What you haven’t seen is big moves in commodities like copper and actually look at lithium. There’s been a big move there. I think a lot more big investors are going to be putting money into long-term deals. Certainly the giant funds have been doing it for years.
Goldfinger:
So by that you mean they’re going to be signing deals with mining companies?
Bob Moriarty:
Yeah. I think we’re about to go into the golden age of mining.
Goldfinger:
And why is that? Like, what are the factors that will make it the golden age of mining?
Bob Moriarty:
When did you get involved in the junior resource business? What year?
Goldfinger:
The first time I bought stock in a junior miner was 2003.
Bob Moriarty:
Okay, perfect. That’s good. Okay. Here’s what happened. You remember what month and year gold bottomed?
Goldfinger:
I feel like it was summer 2001.
Bob Moriarty:
No, it was in August 1999.
Gold (January 1999 to December 2003)
Goldfinger:
Okay.
Bob Moriarty:
Gold went from about $262/oz up to $330/oz. Something like that. And then dropped back down. Between 1999 and 2001, there was this two year consolidation period. Now, do you remember when silver hit its bottom?
Goldfinger:
No, I don’t.
Bob Moriarty:
That would be November 2001. By the spring of 2001, it was clear that we had had a major bottom and stocks were going to go up a lot. Back then guys like you and me didn’t exist. Okay? We didn’t get started until summer of 2001. Kitco and Gold Eagle were the only other people. The big names were guys like Doug Casey and everything they did was on paper and they mailed it out. So I’m going to say, just guessing, that in 2000, there may have been 500 junior resource companies, many of which not even selling for the cash they had in the bank.
And by 2003, 2004, 2005, the market had exploded. And every cab driver in Vancouver was out starting a junior resource company. Now going into March 2008, when the market peaked, there were so many piece of shit deals. It was disgusting. There was some real crap. Okay? But the quality of the companies today and the quality of the deposits, they’re unbelievable.
When you get these things like Endurance, when you get these things like Filo, they’re almost common now. I talked to Quentin about Goliath and I said, “Have you ever heard of a company that hit high-grade gold mineralization on 24 out of 24 holes?” He said, “I’ve never heard of it. Never seen it, never.” There are so many great stories today. And one hand you have got the bullshit of the paper markets and ‘clepto currencies’. And on the other hand, you’ve got a commodity demand explosion. Look at the price of lithium. What’s the price of copper? Look at the price of nickel. So I think we’re going to have a golden age for all this money that went into Bitcoin, and went into Tesla and went into Apple, I think all that money is eventually going to go into natural resources.
Goldfinger:
It makes sense that the world is going to desire hard assets and natural resources that are becoming increasingly scarce. So agricultural commodities, metals, land, real estate, and it’s not going to be exactly like the seventies because it is different. It’s definitely different. But there are some striking similarities. The market doesn’t do the exact same thing over and over again. But it creates similar patterns, it rhymes but it doesn’t repeat exactly.
Bob Moriarty:
I was saying it in 1977. Oh silver, boom, this is going to be a general commodities boom. If you believe in electric vehicles and green energy, you have to be a fan of graphite, nickel, copper, lithium. And I think there’s going to be some explosions in value. Yes, gold and silver will go up, but there are 10 other commodities that will do the same thing. So it’ll go up as much or more.
Goldfinger:
So battery metals and base metals are an increasingly hot topic. Whether it’s tin or zinc or copper or nickel, it’s increasingly apparent the world needs a lot more of these metals and the supply picture over the next decade is not very promising with regard to supplying all the metals that we need.
So what are the companies that you and I both follow that definitely could have a lot of tin and copper and zinc is Eloro Resources (TSX-V:ELO). Eloro is poised to have a big year in 2022. I know the company’s waiting for a lot of assay results for a lot of drilling at their Iska Iska Project in Bolivia. And also a maiden resource estimate is expected in March or April of this year, as well as met testing results. There’s some questions about how many concentrates and what the recoveries are going to be etc.. What do you think about Eloro and how do you think this year’s going to shape up for the company?
Bob Moriarty:
Well, they had 3,000 assays they’ve been waiting on. I happened to be really close to Tom Larson. He’s a personal friend. And they went from about 20 cents a share in early 2020 to its high as $5.89 cents. They have an entire caldera and the only thing that I’ve ever disagreed with Tom and Quinton and Bill Pearson is that it’s a lot bigger than they think. That whole goddamn caldera is mineralized. That’s shaping up to be two billion tonnes or higher. Could be two, could be three billion tons of $100 rock. So if you were talking about two or three hundred billion in metal in the ground, you’re going to have one of the biggest mining companies around today. And they just did so well for their shareholders. It’s a genuine pleasure to be part of that story. Such a great story.
Goldfinger:
Yeah. I think that the next several months could be big for Eloro. I think that the maiden resource obviously is going to be a big catalyst, but as soon as they put it out, the total resources at Iska Iska will probably be 2-3x what they put out to the market, because it’s just for one small area of the project (Santa Barbara). So moving on to gold, I’m sure it’s happened before, but I can’t recall exactly when gold spent so much time trading right at or near a big round number price level like it is now at $1,800. What do you make of this, this trading range and this oscillation that has been playing out in gold and when do you see it transitioning to a trending move?
Bob Moriarty:
Every chart reflects both motivated buyers, motivated sellers, and it’s always a conflict of who is the most motivated. And actually before you have a big trending move, you get a lot of that sideways oscillation. If you look at a chart of Eloro, it’s exactly the same story. My opinion is that we’re going to go a lot higher.
And I think we’re coming out of it now. I think we’ve seen the lows. I’m not sure how well you remember 2015 and 2016. Gold hit its low in the middle of December 2015 and the XAU and the HUI hit their lows in January. But between January and August, the XAU and HUI went up threefold. I think we’re in exactly the same place today. I think that there are so many extraordinary stories that are so cheap that nobody’s paying any attention to them. I look at it as this, like an opportunity to steal.
Goldfinger:
An opportunity to steal in plain sight. Well, I think that’s a good place to end it, Bob.I’ll also note that the monthly chart of gold can help put the recent oscillation around $1800 into a proper context.
Gold (Monthly)
The price action in gold since the August 2020 all-time high at $2089 has formed a bit of a ‘bull flag’ pattern – a resolution to this pattern is likely to occur in the next few months and as you stated, before a big trending move takes place there is often a large sideways oscillation.
Bob Moriarty:
Let me comment on one thing and I’m not sure how much we agree on COVID. There has been so much information released lately about the dangers of the shots and the number of people who are being killed by the shot at Project Veritas has done some great work releasing top secret information that they got from DARPA sources that say Fauci and the NIH and the CDC knew in April 2020 that both HCQ and ivermectin could cure COVID.
Now the whole basis of the EUA for the vaccines was there were no alternatives. And now it’s clear that one Fauci’s been lying through teeth all along and there were cures. And there have been nine hundred thousand people killed in the United States as a result of Covid and two hundred thousand who have died from taking the vaccine. A lot more people are going to die. I think that omicron is going to kill the COVID story because everybody’s getting it, which is a good thing.
Goldfinger:
Yeah. We actually agree on several things. There’s maybe a couple areas where my opinion is a little different than yours.
Dr. Robert Malone was on Joe Rogan recently and he really made some excellent points. One of the key points was that early on in the covid pandemic, so we’re talking about March/April 2020, there was a decision made not to focus on therapeutics and instead put all efforts into vaccination. Trump had a big part in it to be quite honest, with his “operation warpspeed”, an effort to push through covid vaccines at an unprecedented speed without the usual focus on potential side-effects.. There was a decision made that we would not focus on therapeutics and there would be a lot of fear mongering and all the efforts of the government and the establishment (Pfizer, Moderna, etc.) would go towards vaccination.
The decision was twofold: 1. I think that was because vaccinating the globe would make the most profits for the pharmaceutical companies like Pfizer and 2. Because there was an assessment made that the US population is so unhealthy that therapeutics wouldn’t be enough to avoid millions of deaths. With obesity being the number one risk factor for covid that the deaths would be extremely high if we went towards the therapeutic angle and here we are today. Clearly a lot of negligence and misinformation on the part of the government and those people like Fauci with regard to the available therapeutics and the truth about covid, how it spreads, and what the risks really are.
Bob Moriarty:
Yeah. It bothers me. I don’t know if you’ve seen it yet, but there’s a good chart of the US death rate and compared to European countries, between obesity and drug abuse in the United States, the lifespan of Americans is going down substantially, even in comparison to Europe.
Goldfinger: Obesity and mental health are the two biggest medical issues in the US today and I believe the pandemic has only exacerbated these major health issues. As always, I’d like to thank you for your time and cogent insights Bob. Until next time….
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